There was no debate on climate change. Al Gore Emceed a documentary, and we were all hood winked into this drivel. Gore refuses to debate Lord Monkton. The founder of The Weather Channel says its all fabricated. There are 20,000 (TWENTY THOUSAND) scientists who believe there is another agenda willing to discuss it, but no media outlet will take the time to investigate.
Gore has made almost a billion dollars from this farce (while flying all over the globe in a PRIVATE airplane, talk about carbon credits), and like lemmings the lame stream media is going along with the program.

That being said I do believe in being smart, and cautious about the environment. We just don't need the federal government, or Al Gore preaching to us about it.....

I do think there needs to be more debate and less "its settled" attitude. There have been significant concerns raised about artificial "warming" by urban encroachment on weather monitoring stations leading. Also they changed the enclosures several decades. There is good evidence that sunspot activity has much more effect on the global temperature.

All scientists should be wary of the garbage in/garbage out problem. Especially before doing crazy things like spewing sulfur into the atmosphere.

It seems like a jump to judgement was made because it matched a social/political philosophy. It might be true, but it is definitely not "proven"

Global Warming is just one of many symptoms of much larger problem. Along with global warming, the spike in world hunger, desertification, deforestation, etc. These are all symptoms of over population. Earth was simply not designed to support our numbers. The simplest solution is to colonize other worlds (and other objects): Luna, Mars, Ceres. We need to start colonizing these locations, we need to do it soon, and we did to do it in bulk.

These more environmentally friendly won't work with the mass population we have. Removing a number of the population, not necessarily a large number at first, will decrees energy being used; toxins being polluted; resources being consumed; etc. Even such simple pollutants such as those the human body excretes.

Plus moving out forces us to create new technologies, develop new resources, etc. We need to grow beyond our crib. We need to do it soon. At nearly seven billion people, our planet can't take much more.

I'm sorry, did you just call bullshit? Are you sure you're a professional writer?

By the way Mr. Levitt, in case you have forgotten, which you seem to have done, is an economist. He speaks from an economical stand point, so if you find an error in his economics go ahead and write about it. Preferably without calling bullshit like you're writing for a college blog.

As for human behavior your welcome to your opinion but last time I checked we still have war, famine, greed and waste. These traits aren't going to change anytime soon.

When's the last time you bought a meal for that homeless guy on the corner? How much trash did you generate today?

I still can't believe you called bullshit.

First off, global warming is the correct term for whats happening but its being blamed on pollution, and humans and that sort of thing but historical speaking, this is part of the greater cycle, we are still coming out of an ice age, so yes the planet will be getting warmer, second the idea that the planet isn't meant to hold the number of people on it is a miss guided idea, America produces more then enough food to fed most of Africa as well, and there are large plots of land in middle America that aren't even inhabited be people, so there is plenty of space for growth that's not being used, plus there are areas that were once inhabited that have since become uninhabited, square miles of California that were factory areas that have since gone dead that could be re purposed into residential area, there is still plenty of space on earth, all we need to be able to do is get the farmers to dedicate a certain portion of crops for 3rd world countries, give them a government stipend for it so they can continue to produce for the rest of America, and stop being scared by the little changes going on around us.

Hippies to Economist, stick to spreading lies about commerce and we'll stick to spreading lies about climate change. Kthxbai!

Are you kidding me? Seriously? Honestly, there is so much wrong with this post I can't even begin to insult you properly. You are a blogger. You have less economic clout and apparently less understanding than my left nut. Please, actually READ something on economics before tossing Gore's salad with your ridiculous green agenda. =/

Mr Curwin,

How about some full disclosure. Dvice owned by SyFy Channel, Owned by NBC, Owned by GE, GE is a huge supporter of Al Gore and the whole climate change issue. They are the ones pushing for Flourescent bulbs and stand to make billions off of Cap and Trade.

A brief history of climate change goes as such; in the 70's and 80's it was Global cooling. That was proven to be wrong so then in the 90's and 2k it became Global warming (from many of the same people). Now that that's been shown wrong its Climate Change.

Guess what Bucky, the climate is always changing.

I'm all for the enviroment but not at the cost of human life and dignity. Prohibiting people in California from clearing the dangerous underbrush during a massive fire because you might disturb a Kangaroo Rat's nest is rediculous.

Using Floursecent bulbs when they have mercury and other dangerous chemicals is ludicrous.

Creating a carbon tax to protect the environment when Carbon is an essential part of plant life's survival. When current carbon levels are at an all time high, yet we are in the midst of a 10-20 yr temperature low, seems like there is no causation.

I wonder how many of these environmentalist still smoke and throw trash out their cars.

oh hey, looks like Dvice is getting in on NBC's shameless green propaganda night.

I read Freakonomics and was fairly impressed at first. I decided to do more research into some of the ideas promoted in the book and had somewhat of a U-turn in opinion.

Levitt has a similar style of convincing people as Rush Limbaugh. He'll tell you about some interesting fact that's mind blowing and then attach an opinion to it. Kind of like putting a pelt of rat poison in banana split.

It's a completely inappropriate way to promote ideas and should be punished for doing it, not promoted. Yet it seems be building steam as the method of choice to ram irrational theories down everyone's throats.

The whole Blog mentality is also getting old. It's wonderful everyone has an opinion, but what's the point without some foundation or fact to support it?

I like the article image, though. Using giant fans is one way to get rid of our pollution. Dump our smog on Canada! They're use to living in a big grey area.

My last comment before giving up. Why don't you guys at DVice write something about the massive email scandal from the CRU unit at UEA?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2390911/posts

Why are you criticizing dvice? He's obviously FAR smarter than any here. After all, he was able to take down Levitt WITHOUT EVEN READING THE BOOK!

Poor little greenie. Loves to rag on chinmey stacks if the song is right.
Warmth is essential to evaporation, which is the one and only source of rain, snow, ice fields, fresh water, forests, grasslands and pretty much life as we know it. Desertification is caused by global cooling, and has been going on for some time, and will continue until the ice caps are so tiny that they no longer keep the oceans so cool that the fairly constant energy received from the sun is not sufficient to force enough water vapor into the air to reach every part of the planet before precipitating out and leaving some areas as cold deserts which seem warm on the SURFACE due to reflection during the daylight hours. What really concerns me is the huge growth in chlorophyllic life that will accompany a warmer globe. Along with huge and quick deposits of polar ice, we will see a drastic drop in atmospheric carbon dioxide levels. Future scientists will look at the ice and conclude that when the ice age came, it was caused by a lack of carbon in the atmosphere. I will laugh at them.

> How about some full disclosure. Dvice owned by
>SyFy Channel, Owned by NBC, Owned by GE, GE is
>a huge supporter of Al Gore and the whole climate
>change issue...

Why stop there? Trevor's 401k probably owns stock in GE. Trevor controls his 401k. Therefore Trevor is conspiring with himself!

Looks like we've found 13 (THIRTEEN) teabaggers...

I'm guessing that energy generated from curbside collected compost will be extremely expensive. Of course if the way to alter human behavior is by raising prices of commodities that may be effective. But if it also comes at the expense of diminished return for the purchasing dollar it won't succeed unless mandated by the government.

I have learned long ago to never get into a political or enviornmental debate with anyone from San Fransisco.
As for economics... California as a whole is disqualified.
They are trying to legalize pot and illiegalize smoking...

Mihos: Lol! How true.

Everyone else: Completely disagree. Pop theory books like "Freakonomics," "Outliers," etc. are great for a yarn, but not so great as far as their actual science goes. Science gives them an inch of truth, and they take a mile of liberty with their own opinions arguments in an effort to create an interesting read.

I completely agree with Trevor's post.

Epic Fail!
Behaviour does not deal with bulk energy issues, that requires technology, and shifting disposal onto other parts of the private sector probably won't reduce energy waste by much, it may even increase energy waste. Transport is not free!

1. Global Warming is mostly caused by nature, man's contribution barely registers. Solar activity is the main driver e.g. why this private company bests far better funded conventional weather forecasters:
http://www.weatheraction.com/

2. The human caused global warming craze is based on junk science, and corrupt politics. It is a racket designed to make the rich richer and provide new taxes for governments, via deceptively named credits, taxes, cap & trade etc., and miss-allocation of funds, to expensive, inadequate alternative power generation methods. This will only lead to a new investment bubble in yet more carp!

The best approach is to think bigger and crazier, like Levitt says, by making better use of space, by making energy generation, transport (VHT DC power lines), and its use more efficient, and by cutting waste, in the production, transport, and disposal of matter. All these changes can add up to deal with the more critical issues of an ageing energy infrastructure.

I am not convinced that the following are workable, economical, or even help much: Windmills, Solar panels, Hydrogen, Ethanol.

BTW: Rather than backing obsolete inefficient CFLs, governments should be encouraging investment in superior DC-based LED lighting technology, to bring the cost down quicker. IMHO it is ridiculous we are still using florescent tubes, for anything, particularly Monitors and TVs!

Hurray for Infernoz! Instead of wringing our hands over the slim chance that we might pass gas and blow out the world, maybe we would do better by thinking about achieving the construction and maintenance of a space-based habitat capable of sustaining a planet's worth of people. Any Cattle-Car Scholastica xenophobes who cry that we need to return to the Earth and grubbing in the dirt could be placed in an airlock with a suit and a couple days worth of air and given a shove in the right direction.

Damn. I thought this tempest in a teapot had blown over already. I guess this is your reaction to the CRU disaster? BTW, next time? Make sure your science is good before criticizing a well respected author's science.
Nick

I listened to a radio interview of the authors. They didn't do a very convencing job of defending their climate change comments. Basicaly they agreed with the vast majority of climate change science.

They claim that people (like many of the posters here) purposely misunderstand the points they make in their book.

In other words, the authors understand that global warming is real and primarily man-made. They also believe that we must do something to mitigate its effects.

Since we know so little about climate, I think it is best that we dispense with the use of such words as 'know', 'think', 'understand' and anything else that implies intelligent choice. Any reference to preferences should be called beliefs, hopes and prejudices to clarify the fact that the persons involved are not an elite intelligence that possesses superior knowledge, but a collection of a particular sect of scientism worshipping their version of the Supreme Intellect.

I've read all the cooments and it just shows the hubris of the American's. There's no Global warming? Dumb, arrogant and Dumb.
The earth is warming, there is no way of denying it. Whether we are partly to blame or wholly to blame is really a past discussion.
We know the problem's, we know the solutions. There are difficult issues ahead.
However the most difficult is denial by fools such as the comments above.

We need to accept the situation rather than blame it on the mad ramblings of commies', hippies' and martian's etc.

It's attitudes we need to change and when the GOP think about putting Sarah Palin as presidential candidate the world knows that the US is as crazy as it ever was. She espouses creationism after all the evidence to the contrary and a huge portion the American public believes in it too!

So when I see comments that deny the issues facing the planet in the face of a huge amount of evidence I look on in despair.

Has the US population learned nothing about it's place in the world? Obviously not.

Oh by the way, the health bill, it just shows you that the US is the most self serving, un-charitable place on the planet. So much wealth but so little good.
Is it wrong to help your fellow man? It appears so.

You could be a beacon of freedom, peace, the future but you leave those things to others because it doesn't help bring the oil in or get you that nice TV. Shame on you.

Bunch of Yank,
Did you even think before you posted your comments, or did you just vomit up the first mindless trash that came to mind.

1)"The earth is warming and there is no way to deny it." Except, of course, for temperature readings by orbital satelites that directly contradict the information provided by inaccurate land-based stations. Except for the fact that EVERY future warming estimate given by global warming activists since the 1980's have been totally wrong. Even the predictions given in the past 10 years have been wrong, but that is ignored in the news. Ever heard of Hurricane Katrina, supposedly caused by global warming and "proof" that we are now entering the worst hurricane cycle for North America in history? Totally wrong. The following years actually had few, less intense hurricanes. Supposedly any warming on Earth must be caused by man, but other planets in our solar system have experienced global warming on par with us. How did we manage that? The list of examples go on and on. When global warming activists are proven wrong, it is not reported. Research. Then open your mouth.

Like most global warming activists, instead of addressing the failed predictions and obvious flaws in the global warming theories, you attack anyone who doesn't agree with you as "dumb" and "stupid." First, answer the flaws in your own argument. Then start the name calling.

2) What the hell does the GOP and Sarah Palin have to do with any of this? Are you that blinded by your hatred of people who do not follow your politics that you have to bring them up in discussions that have nothing to do with them?

3) "America does not know it's place in the world?" "..the US is self serving and un-charitable?" The US gives more in foreign aid, both from the government and private charities, than the rest of the world combined. When a natural disaster strikes, we are the first to send aid. We even aid our enemies. Where was the international assistance in the US during Katrina? Where was the foreign aid to help rebuild New York after 9/11?
The US takes in more legal immigrants than most other nations. At the same time, all we have are other nations demanding that we give them everything they want with no strings attached.

Why don't YOU turn off your TV and do a little research on why there is so much poverty in the world. Look at the governments that cause it through corruption and religious repression. Look at the nations that lecture the US and see how they treat their citizens. Look at that evil monstrousity that is the UN (a chief supporter of global warming because of the money they extort from the US) and research the corruption there.

But I doubt that you'll bother. You've been told what to believe and will mindlessly go about your business as the pseudo-intellectual that you think you are.

hebramleigh

Go tell the Polar bears that there isn't global warming.

As for the Palin thing, it seems like he was referencing the idiotic nature of certain American's and that it's somewhat rampant through the far right of America.

You deny what you don't want to hear. We went to war with Iraq because the then President of America, George W Bush said they had WMD's. They didn't really did they. We just wanted their OIL.

Now you're saying there isn't global warming because you want to burn that OIL.

Hurricanes happen all the time. Sometimes ther are more and sometimes there are less.

However getting back to the Polar bear. He won't be seeing much of that snow anymore will he?

Have I experienced Global warming?

I have, you try being this close to the sun. Ouch

@hebramleigh

When Hurricane Katrina hit, the government gave me so much help. We were all back in our homes the next day.

Pseudo-intellectual-
You say we went to Iraq to steal their oil? WHERE IS ALL THAT OIL? The amount of oil production and where it is sold from Iraq has been been a minimal amount placed on the world market. It did not come to the US. That is a dishonest claim that has been proven wrong for years (just like we drove Iraq out of Kuwait in the first Gulf War to seize their oil.) Only a committed liar or an extremely stupid person would stick to that argument after so many years of not being to produce a shred of evidence to back it up. I guess you believe Bush also flew one of the planes into the World Trade Center and had Spock beam him out before it head.

As for Polar Bears, the ice caps have grown and receded drastically many times over the past 10,000 years, and yet the polar bears are still there. Unless you believe they've evolved as a species just recently, they have adapted. If you still don't believe in Global Climate change that is not man-made, ever heard of Greenland? When it was first colonized, it was called Greenland because it was GREEN. The population there eventually died out because the climate changed (long before the pollution of industrialization) and it became a frozen incapable of sustaining crops. Weather patterns are cyclical. We are in one now. To claim this is man-made when all other cyclical patterns could not have been, is not just the height of ignorance, it is stupid (to coin the left's favorite insult to anyone who questions their dogma.)

The Planets- Yes, recently published surveys establish that the nearest-Earth planets have experienced a global temperature increase coinciding with Earth's. Look it up on something called the Internet.

New Orleans- I never stated our government rebuilt New Orleans within a day of Katrina. I asked where the aid was from other countries who DEMAND it of us. Seriously, did you even read my comments? And are you stupid enough to blame the evil GOP and Bush for that? The Army Corps of Engineers urged Louisiana and New Orleans to strengthen their levies since the 1920's. The state and local governments, which have traditionally been Democratic, ignored those warnings. The government of New Orleans had over a week's warning to evacuate their most vulnerable citizens (nursing home patients, etc.) They were COMPLETELY ineffectual. But when the weakened levies broke, who did you blame? Bush. Hey, rocket scientist, once all the roads are flooded or completely washed away, exactly how is aid supposed to get into the city? Of course there would be delays on something on that scale. If anything, it showed the imcompetance of the government running every aspect of your life (since so many people are too lazy/stupid/dishonest) to take care of themselves and have to have the government do it for them. Hundreds of millions of dollars were squandered trying to show how well the government can handle disasters. But, hey, I imagine you are one of the folks who used their government debit card to get a new flat-screen tv.

So, essentially, you blame the slow response and complete waste of money in regards to New Orleans on Bush rather than the Democrats who ran the state, parish, and city for most of a century and ignored the problem.

That is a typical is leftist democrats. Create a problem, blame it on others, and demand that everyone else cater to you ever need while you show no personal responsibility.

Patiently awaiting the next attack from people too stupid or lazy to read or think logically...

Well, the world actually is warming. It has been for thousands of years. We haven't really noted the changes, mostly because we live in tiny segments of under a century for the most part, and also because the ice that originally created the reflective shield that has cooled the planet to its present state has remained in sufficient quantity to maintain a fairly constant global temperature. When the ice recedes nearly to nothing, mostly for lack of new precipitation, which is the actual source of snow and ice, not the magical cold fairy, who is powerless without any moisture to actually be deposited, though a fine individual in his/her own right, the oceans will warm and the winds will once again fill with moisture from solar evaporation. Fresh water will become plentiful. The deserts will turn to grasslands. The Age of Aquarius will have reached completion. It's only just starting, now, and should be done in about 2,100 years, if the climatological predictions of the ancients is correct. Science demand reproducable results, and so far, we have arrived at wrong predictions with every climate model we have employed, which I would suggest proves that we don't know what the heck we are talking about in the first place. Maybe we should shut up about global warming. I volunteer to go first. Bye.

I am Shocked at the amount of Anti-Environmental capitalists that read this site.

Why bother reading a site that supports green ideas, advancing of humanity and over all change when you can’t even leave the 20th century? Most of you will bring up any excuse you can find in order to prevent any change from occurring. Why are you so scared of change?

Are the majority of you so blind that you can honestly believe that there are Zero consequences to burning trillions of barrels of Oil? You think our minutely thin atmosphere can handle 7 billion humans dumping millions of tonnes of CO2 into it forever?

Someone here actually argued against calling BS in a blog... That’s the most shockingly pathetic argument I’ve seen made on this site. Try and stay on topic... By not even being able to make it past the words used in the argument your ignorance insults us all. I’d rather not call myself a member of the same species you belong to.

Regardless of your views on the environment and climate change, it is happening. Freakonomics and SuperFreakonomics provide a new perspective on the issues at hand. If you take this perspective or any perspective as Truth with a capital “T” you are an idiot and should just go back to the ignorant hole you came from. (Even Ivy League educated people can be retards, remember that.)

I don’t 100% agree with Trevor but I respect him for taking a stand. Those of you promoting a view point of someone else you believe in try and get some balls like Trevor. Take a stand and develop your own view based on logical reasoning and the facts instead of your corporate PR / Fox News Heroes. Just because you, your family and your town are hired and paid by a corporation, it doesn’t believe their views and actions are right. Your livelihood now doesn’t guarantee you and your families’ livelihood forever.

I’ve never understood how common sense could become a super power. However, the comments in this blog have clearly proven this fact true.

Green ideas are ideas. Capitalists who are not sold on green ideas are often able to peruse and digest ideas of many sorts, comparing and contrasting them to arrive at a balanced perspective. I find production beyond mean sustenance to be advantageous, and necessary in order to survive arboreal climes, let alone have seed to plant in the spring to facilitate further production. This is capitalism. I know my catechism class defines it otherwise. Understand I am not against capitalism. I only believe that masses of wealth should not be left in the hands of those who earn them and are able to invest them to grow them, but must be gathered into collective central stores that I control, or which are controlled by people who conform to my beliefs and ideals. It is only fair if I am the sole judge of what is right and proper.

How much forests was removed and where these were removed from in the past until today must be measured and identified. The information is necessary to be able to come up with a clearly directed program to bring down global temperatures, CO2, and atmospheric vapor to past levels, as only the restoration of the forests can fix the problem. Hi-tech gadgets is anybody's fun and let everyone enjoy what they think they should be doing. But the final solution of the climate problem is to bring back to the present what nature was in the past.

Yes! We must return to vast expanses of glaciers that cover all of the upper latitudes and higher altitudes, with trees and grasses found only in lower regions. To do this, we must allow the world to warm enough to cause evaporation to distribute water to all areas of the planet. To prevent this warming cycle, we must kill the planet and consume its corpse, dwelling ever after upon its dead bones. If the world is god, then god must die, but only to save it. Oh, that should have been boreal above, but arboreal works, too. I must have been suffering from second-hand carbon. The world must die and man must become the new god who controls all. And I shall be the new supreme ruler of all, reigning as a deity upon the earth, silencing all who oppose me, harshly but fairly, for their own good.

The global warming science is settled. The leaked emails clearly show that it is a fraud and the real science proves that there is no relationship between carbon dioxide and temperature. Limiting carbon only creates human suffering and has no effect on the planet. Let's concentrate on real environmental problems like clean water and on helping developing countries raise their standard of living through providing sources of cheap energy, not expensive, unreliable energy sources like solar or wind. Perhaps even focused fusion energy generators. But don't waste any more money on global warming bs. Think how much the billions we have wasted on this nonsense could have done for the less fortunate around the world.

Here's the most telling comment from the Climategate emails:

On Oct 14, 2009, at 10:17 AM, Kevin Trenberth wrote:

Hi Tom
How come you do not agree with a statement that says we are no where close to knowing where energy is going or whether clouds are changing to make the planet brighter. We are not close to balancing the energy budget. The fact that we can not account for what is happening in the climate system makes any consideration of geoengineering quite hopeless as we will never be able to tell if it is successful or not! It is a travesty!
Kevin
==================
Seems very explicit, doesn't he? What possible context could change its meaning? Note, too, the recent date, long after the frequently cited Kiehl & Trenberth (1997) and subsequent revision (2008). This from the guy who claims we have a net surface absorption of 0.9 Wm2.

Why is this so important? It really invalidates climate models since they are allegedly driven by the global energy budget and how energy moves through the system. If we can not account for what is happening in the climate system we can not model it nor is there any basis for climate model "projections", "predictions" or whatever you want to call the fairytales released by Gore, the IPCC or anyone else. The entire Global Warming hoax is predicated on these models and falls flat on its face in light of the actual facts.

Apparently few have heard what many of us have understood since Al Gore first whipped people into a frenzy with his film. Global Warming is a freakin hoax, and has been since his revelation. Just a smidgen of research would show you "all of the planets in our solar system" had been rising in temperature. Gee, must be all of those SUVs effecting the entire universe. Temperatures stopped rising some ten years ago. Which was about the same time flare activity on our sun reduced. Now in a solar minimum, temperatures are on the decline. Look out, ice age ahead as predicted back in the 60's. Guess we need to stop selling little cars with lawn mower motors and force everyone to buy Big Trucks to avoid freezing to death.

Bunch of Yank,

Nice job calling people names who don't agree with your view on climatology- ironic that you, in terms of your apparent views on religion, seem to accept the scientific method and thus skepticism. Be careful you don't replace religion with environmentalism- to approach this issue scientifically means to embrace debate, not to denounce automatically those who disagree. Especially when they have good evidence.

As for your comments about America "not knowing it's place", denouncing our health bill debate, and about America missing the oportunity to be a beacon of freedom I can't help but laugh at you. Exactly why should we hold the opinion of anyone else as our standard? This moral equivalancy is ludicrous, since we are in fact the only country ever founded on a truly moral code- the protection of the rights of the individual. Your logic can be reduced to absurdity quite easily: consider a world of dictatorships where only one free country remains- in your reasoning, this free country should "know its place" and conform to the demands of the tyrants because being free is "selfish." Please clarify your logic if it is in fact not simply mob-rule democracy. (By the way, America is a constitutional/democratic Republic chiefly because our founders knew the evil of democracy)

As for the health care bill- it is unconstitutional and, although the constitution has flaws, it is our contract and we should not break it. In America, we have the political right of life- we do not have an economic right to the labor of any other man. We are a republic for a reason, so the majority cannot violate the rights of the individual- and that includes the right to the product of your own labor. We do not decree certain persons to be slaves to others in this country. Of course, the healthcare industry is busted- but that is due to corporatism, and cannot be solved by more regulation when it was regulation and special interests that messed it up in the first place.

I will agree full-heartedly that the America of today is disgusting, but not because of its unique American qualities, but because of its adsorption of the moral codes of altruistism (other-ism) the majority of the nations hold in our modern world. These codes chiefly benefit the super rich and destroy social and economic mobility. It saddens me that we have a world run by political bigots harping to glossy-eyed masses, pillaging the products of the free-market of ideas and, at the same time, blaming it for all the evils of the world. Like the soviets who stole factory plans in their "great" plan for russia's industrialization this sort of bastardization of science without understanding the reasoning behind free-markets of ideas and the scientific and moral reasons for capitalism only lasts so long until it collapses.

But of course, you are an other-ist, so you might think it is immoral to allow people to benefit from their own productivity- to allow people to live without the threat of force, and to be protected from others who would wish to use force against them.

One day these cycles of empires(including this current American, nation-building, debt creating, democracy spreading(!) empire), of corporatism, will fail- either we'll destroy ourselves, or we will in truth CHANGE- rather than accepting the pseudo-change of cycling back to statism, we'll actually see how we humans can truly promote human welfare. How's that? By promiting the life of the smallest minority- the individual.

I think Carl Sagan said it best: "we enjoy the products of science while rejecting the scientific method." Even though I don't believe in a God..... God help us.