Related Sections: HDTV Shift
SHIFT: Image retention — plasma's dirty little secret
Plasma or LCD? There are other kinds of TVs out there, of course, from near-deceased CRT to rear projection, and the new but still tiny OLED format. But if you go to any electronics store today to buy a television, you'll probably end up deciding between these two dominant technologies.
Your salesman will likely mention many things. For example, he may tell you which TVs work better in dark or light rooms, their expected lifespan and warranty. It's possible he'll say, "Burn-in used to be a problem with plasmas, but it doesn't exist in the new models." Burn-in, of course, is what happens when you leave the same image on a plasma or CRT TV for a long time— eventually the phosphors will retain the image permanently, so you always see a ghost of it no matter what's onscreen. The two words he certainly won't mention are "image retention," the temporary ghosting effect that still dogs plasmas. Click Continue to read more about why that's a problem.
So forget burn-in. Let's talk about temporary image retention instead. The truth about image retention is that it's not that hard to cause, but that it takes a lot of time and electricity to make it go away. The Image Science Foundation did a study in 2005, sponsored by Pioneer Electronics, whose results are often quoted to show that burn-in is a myth or close to it.
Yet when you read the actual wording of the study, you can see that although image retention isn't permanent, it can take a long time to go away. Here's a direct quote from the study:
"After the 48-hour torture test, all three of the plasma TVs that were tested showed clearly visible images from the game menu, whereas none of the LCD or MD [micro-display] rear projection-based sets showed any image retention. However, after regular video material (a DVD movie set to continuously loop) was played through the sets for 24 hours, the image completely disappeared from all three plasmas, leaving no trace. Unlike early generation plasmas, where those type of images would not go away and could actually "burn" onto the screen, modern plasma TVs enjoy a combination of more robust screen materials and subtle image-shifting technologies that have rendered this former issue moot."
A couple of things to note here. First, LCDs were not affected at all by the "torture test." Next, to get rid of the image retention, researchers had to run the TV for 24 hours. It takes me a month to watch that much TV, and unlike LCDs, plasma screens don't "heal" these images when they're off. Houston, we've still got a problem.
Let's say you’re a gamer. At the end of a couple of intense weeks of Halo, you invite friends over for a movie. How embarrassing — your super-expensive TV has unsightly image retention. You played a movie beforehand to try to get rid of it, not realizing that you'll have to play 11 more before the ghosting disappears. That's more than a minor inconvenience.
You don't have to do a "torture test" on your plasma to see ghosting — just try using it to display your computer desktop for a few hours. Yes, the hard-drive icon will eventually disappear, but even minor image retention could take several hours to eliminate using your plasma set's "white wash" (almost all current plasma sets have one — an image retention-reducing screensaver). Plasma spokesmen (and fanboys) will tell you that image retention is uncommon, and will occur if you use your TV in an atypical manner. Their definition of atypical must be very broad: I see image retention at friends' houses and on commercial TVs all the time.
For example, in a recent post called “Plasma TV Basics,” Gizmodo explained, “[burn-in is] now a nonissue when debating LCD vs. plasma.” When our colleague Charlie White tackled the plasma/LCD debate before the Superbowl he said, "Gone are the old problems with images burning into the screen." And when David Pogue had a conversation with a Best Buy salesman and annotated it with clarifications and corrections, he let this statement stand: “the traditional flaws of plasma (like burn-in)… have been largely eliminated.”
A trip to an online plasma-user forum like AVS or High Def forum shows that consumers are still talking about image retention. Why isn't anyone else?
If you own a plasma, you've probably read this online or in an instruction manual. If you're a consumer trying to make the decision for the first time, chances are you won't know about it until after you purchase your plasma TV. And that could be disappointing — here's a brand new toy, and you have to gimp it just when you want to show it off.
I'm not calling for a boycott, and I'm not an anti-plasma zealot, but I would like a more honest conversation about this phenomenon. Instead of, "Burn-in is a myth" or "Burn-in doesn't happen anymore," the discussion should shift to, "While burn in isn't a problem anymore, your plasma TV will be prone to image retention. You'll have to be careful about gaming, aspect ratios that don't match your TV, scrolling news bars, and using your TV as a computer monitor. If you do encounter ghosting, it could take a while to disappear. If you think you might lose sleep over this, you'll be better off with an LCD." It's a mouthful, but it's the truth.
By Stone at 10:19 PM ON 05/08/08
Am I mistaken, or does it say that this study is from 2005? Exactly how much has TV tech improved in that time frame? Hmm.
By hunter at 10:43 PM ON 05/08/08
TV tech has improved a great amount but not on this particular issue. i have a plasma and i do get some ghosting on ocasion but to solve it i leave my TV on one of the inputs with nothing playing, which on a pioneer is just a black screen, and by leaving it on the next day its perfect. what has imroved is the lifespan of plasmas which are far beyond what we expect to keep our tv's for so leaving your plasma on overnight with a black screen up will get rid of ghosting, or as i like to think of it leave a big blank ghost image which actualy makes dark colors look better on my TV. for naysayers of the leave a better ghost technique i say now that my TV has a lifespan of 20,000 hours, and watching the thing for 24 is a lot, i dont think ill keep it that long. sry about the essay but it works for me.
By @Hunter at 12:36 AM ON 05/09/08
On the downside, leaving your TV on that long is consuming extra power. Not a good thing.
By User45701 at 8:19 AM ON 05/09/08
Hi,
Sorry but the way to look at it is simply this...
Plasma if you like sci-fi because ive watched the same HDDVD& bluray discs on HDMI 1080P's TV's
Plasma do a a better black so you want to watch scifi get a plasma,
LCD on the other hand is better at bright colours to thomas the tank engine (just kidding) but great shows that are bright like pushing dasies or the trees/bacround in lost would be better on LCD.
As for image retention we where having aparty left a scene in a movie paused for about 4 hours then we finished the movie, the image was there (but you could bearly see it )for all of 2 mins and it does NOT in any way ruin the movie
By Chet K at 9:56 AM ON 05/09/08
As a former retail salesperson in this industry (and a current B2B salesperson), I hope to assist in setting this record straight. You are correct in your assessment that image retention can be a problem with plasma technology. What you miss the boat on, however, is that image retention is still possible (and just as easy) with most LCD panels, and with CRT (tube) televisions. In fact, image retention is no more problematic with plasma panels that it was with your old CRT tube TV. And did you ever have a problem with image retention while playing your Atari 2600?
I thought not.
So while *technically* image retention is possible with *all 3 technologies*, it is something that you would actually have to work really hard to achieve. The only time I've actually seen it happen in the last few years is when I accidentally left my computer on (with no screen saver) for my entire 10 day vacation, and came back to some serious image retention. This happened on an LCD monitor, not plasma, and it was gone within a couple days of normal use.
Questions? chet.kuhn@bestbuy.com
By Traveler at 12:15 PM ON 05/09/08
I haven't seen anyything close to my plasma Pioneer KURO 150FD.
By Jon at 2:52 PM ON 05/09/08
I own a plasma tv, an LG(I cant remember the model number) but I bought it early last year, and I will admit that I have noticed the image retention, however I think this overexagerated the problem. After marathon sessions of gaming you can notice the HUD or whatever from the game still on the screen, but the ghosting always disappeares rather quickly, as soon as I turn on the tv and go to a normal television channel, bright new colors immediately dissipate any 'ghost' images on the screen. The image retention only lasts a significant amount of time if I play a game and then watch a movie, tv show or video game with a dark setting, in which case, getting rid of the image is as easy as changing the channel to a program with a brighter setting.
By EnOne at 4:34 PM ON 05/09/08
My issue with a Plasma TV has nothing to do with their image. It mainly has to do with vampire power drain. This is the amount of power that a device uses when it is supposedly turned off. There is a old factoid that a typical home microwave uses more energy in a year keeping the clock running than heating food. According to the Department of Energy a plasma tvs uses 1,452.4 kWh per year when turned off. At 11 cents per kWh that is about 160 per year without even turning it on! If you type Plasma TV Vampire Chart into Google you can find the chart. If you do own a plasma tv I recommend getting a kill-a-watt and finding out for yourself.
For those keeping track this DOE study is also from 2005.
By EnOne at 4:37 PM ON 05/09/08
By zarchitect at 6:25 AM ON 05/10/08
Agree with "ENONE"... I have my OPPO logo remain (huge white letters) for a few minutes after the DVD starts but relatively quickly goes away - not really an issue. The power-drain is a lot bigger issue so I shoved all equipment on a Pure AV box and kill the power (same as unplugging) to everything but DVR when not in use. This is also a peace of mind in an electrical storm. Standby power drain is HUGE!!! Manufacturers should really fix THIS! DVR alone costs $20/yr even without doing anything...but can't switch that one off.
By S.E. Kramer at 11:55 AM ON 05/11/08
@Enone: this is a very important issue that I didn't have time to address in this column. Thanks for bringing it up. It should definitely be on everyone's mind during the LCD/plasma decision-making process, but it's not something we hear enough about.
@Stone: The study may be from 2005, but it is still the major piece of research cited by plasma PR/marketing reps on this issue. If there were research out there that made plasmas look better, you can be sure they'd quote that instead.
By Jersey Dave at 11:22 AM ON 05/14/08
05/08/08 - May 5, 2008....
Also the tech really hasn't changed that much, the basics of how the Plasma screen works etc.
By Billistophilez at 1:26 PM ON 05/14/08
All of this seems ludicrous, I mean your spending thousands to tens-of-thousands of dollars on a piece of equipment that you expect to function properly, not "Oh, well it does do that, however, if you do this it will stop" What is that? I think our product standards have diminished drastically!!! I mean, I remember as a child having a 10" color Sony television made in the early 70's that lasted 25+ years. I believe that we as consumers need to curb our enthusiasm in order to make manufactures start producing products that are truly worth the amount that we are paying for them.
By alskn3 at 1:40 PM ON 05/14/08
I bought a Sanyo 42" plasma Last year and if "burn in" is a thing of the past they are full of it!! my plasma was manufactured in early 2007 and when my Satellite went out it left a still picture on the screen saying it was searching for signal up on my plasma for 45 min and it actually burnt into the screen I had to use the "white pattern" in the controlls to get rid of the immage so it is not a thing of the past!!
They also put out a lot of heat from the back of the set and do use a lot more electricity then a standard LCD it takes a lot to run that screen
I just sold my plasma and intend to go buy a LCD this weekend
Look at the Mitsubishi LCD's I have a friend that has one and they have one of the best pictures I have seen on any LCD'S or Plasma's
Tom
By groschuni at 7:45 PM ON 05/14/08
I've had a Panasonic plasma for almost two years now and only remember seeing any image retention on the first day I set it up. My kids occasionally use it for Wii play, but I haven't seen any IR after that at all. Also, standby power usage for Plasmas and LCD TVs are basically identical. My Panasonic plasma has a standby power of .3W. According to LG's website, standby power of their LCD panel is a little under 1W. And although the 50" plasma panel specs reports an in-use wattage of about 460W, actual usage various with screen brightness and usually averages much less, particularly if you watch a lot of sci-fi. Whereas the 52" LCD usage of 350W is constant, regardless of what you are watching. In the long run, plasmas and LCDs use about the same amount of energy, though the new plasma technology that is now coming out with infinite contrast ratio is much more energy efficient, aiming for 10 lumens per watt rather than the old standard of around 2-3 lumens per watt.
You really can't beat a plasma for sci-fi viewing. Nothing looks better when showing the inky blacks of space. My LCD cannot touch my plasma in that regard and I just can't stand to watch sci-fi on it. For gaming, it's fine. But when I want to watch a movie, the plasma is the only thing I want to watch. Anyway, that's been my experience, but I don't think I am far from average.
By Ju at 1:28 PM ON 08/18/08
My father just bought a 50 inch Panasonic Viera Plasma screen for our home (one week ago). It looks beautiful, but I am already hugely disappointed with the image retention. We already have a "Eurosport" logo imprinted on the top-right of the screen and a vertical line due to watching 4:3 content (I watched some Walt Disney Treasures sets this week).
How can one relax and watch a movie or some TV when the set constantly retains images? I have a lot of old Disney movies in the 1.33:1 ratio. Looks like that vertical line is going to be there for some time. :(
By rpdjw at 7:41 PM ON 09/17/08
This is interesting, I've had a Panasonic 42" Plasma for near 2 years. Play anything and everything, including games, with never a "ghost" issue. My son just got a new Vizio 42" Plasma and had "ghost" issues on the 3rd day from having an image on screen for 2 hours. Although it was easy to remove, should not happen so quickly.
Image quality is why we went Plasma. LCD's are getting there but not there yet. LCD will probably catch up to Plasma but in the mean time we'll opt for image quality. The maintenance is easy once you know. What is bad is the retail sales and manufacturers do not tell you.
By Mok at 12:57 PM ON 11/26/08
OMG, I cannot believe all the misinformation out there. The author is completely correct about image retention on plasmas. As I sit here in my shop, with an LCD that I am repairing open on my bench, I was looking some information up on the net when I came across this page.
I cannot believe that one ex-salesman "oh, I know everything and I'll correct you", what a load. CRT TVs NEVER had an image retention problem. Read that sentance again. CRTs did suffer from burn-in if you left a static image displayed too long. I've literally worked on humdreds of them. That salesman doesn't understand the difference between burn-in and retention. Some other guy tryinng to tell us "LCD is best for scifi, and is brighter than plasmas". Get your facts straight buddy, and don't be stupid. Plasma always was brighter than LCD to this day. Just look at the contrast ratios and brightness figures. Most LCDs will peak out all the bright video if turned up too high. Plasmas have a better black, but they also have a physical distance between the pixels, which means your optimum viewing distance is further away than with an LCD. Lastly, you can still burn-in LCDs. No, I don't mean retention. If your LCD suffers from image retention or ghosting or shadowing, take it back to the store the same day you buy it. It's deffective. If, however, you leave a static image on an LCD for very long periods of time you can wear the pixels unevenly causing burn-in (not really a good name since nothing is burned). I work on LCD monitors from TV stations and news papers all the time that suffer from this exact problem. Anyone who tells you it doesn't happen is completely wrong. If you get this problem on an LCD, you MIGHT be able to correct it, but it takes months, not a day or two like it does on a plasma.
I purchased an LCD TV for my home use after considering all this information and seeing the actual problems with my own eyes. I'm happy with my decision and I recommend LCD to all my clients, friends and family.
By superpooper at 12:20 PM ON 11/28/08
Of course all these things can happen, but if you listened to the T.V salesperson when you were buying your precious plasma screen T.V,
you could have stopped almost everything. I'm suprised anybody cared enough to put up a comment.
By Gdawg007 at 11:07 PM ON 11/29/08
The statement that "Plasma always was brighter than LCD to this day. Just look at the contrast ratios and brightness figures" I think was a misquote. The original author said the opposite, that plasmas had deeper blacks (and were better for Sci-fi) and that LCD's were brighter. Also, relying on the contrast ratios and brightness figures on the box means nothing. There is no standard for contrast ratio and thus companies can claim whatever they can prove with whatever standard they wish to use. If you want to compare brightness, you have to measure it directly. Marketing puts all those "specs" together, not the people who actually know how the thing works.
By LEGENDSOFHYRULE at 10:01 AM ON 12/20/08
Image Retention is definitely still a problem. I just got a new 50 inch Plasma, and after playing Tales of Vesperia on it over the last couple weeks, I now have the Overlimit Bar (part of the games graphical interface) burned onto the left part of my screen. I've been running a wash-out DVD all night for the past few days, but it's not going away. After spending 30+ hours running this DVD to remove it, to no avail, I'm pretty sure it's permanent damage I have here, despite all the talk going around of permanent burn-in being a 'myth'. So yeah, it's pretty frustrating...
(By the way, it's a 2008 Panasonic model, and I went through the break-in procedure to the letter.)
Hopefully I'm wrong and my image retention...burn in...whatever you want to call it, will eventually go away...but I'm not too hopeful after this much time.
By anand at 3:48 AM ON 01/27/09
I have a few friends who use Panasonic plasmas and after talking to them, i can say confidently that the latest generation of plasmas dont have the problem of image retention
By Streez at 2:56 AM ON 02/04/09
I've seen a few people with modern plasmas and while some are worse than others, all are prone image retention. One friend of mine has a Samsumng, and he gets image retention after only a few minutes or so of browsing through the EPG on his satellite box(although it goes away after a minute or two - still really annoying) Apparently this is a defect and he may get his TV replaced. That being said - plasma is much more prone to having issues than LCD - Better buy that extended warranty (aka "service plan") if you get a plasma. Plasma has its place - dark basements as a home theatre TV and dark bars that play lots of sports, as plasma is better for fast motion.
By mattboy at 10:16 AM ON 02/09/09
I've done alot of HDTV research... here' what I've found.
Plasma's have image rention... Mainly the cheaper models...BUT LCD's problems are much more serious.
Motion Resolution. NO LCD'S CAN DISPLAY AN HD IMAGE UNDER FULL FRAME RATE!!! Isn't that crazy?
Check out the specs 125 HDTVs... no LCD can do HD under full motion.
So your LCD won't burn a static image, but its not HD under full frame rate. LCD Pixels are too slow... what the response time on a plasma?
http://hdguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/2008-resolution-tests-125-hdtvs.pdf
So here's your choice. Your plasma may burn, but your LCD is only HD when displaying a static image.
Save your pennies and buy a Pioneer Kuro Plasma...best bet at the moment... LCD's are glorified picture frames... I need full HD during my Hockey games...
By cakyol at 6:18 PM ON 07/01/09
I have chosen LCD and first hand witnessed image sticking. Unfortunately at the time, I did not know even LCD was prone to this. I watched LOTS of 4:3 programs and now permanent lines are "etched" in the screen... HOWEVER.. I am also told that in LCD, this is reversible by using washout DVDs.
Where can I buy a good effective washout DVD ?
Thanx
PS: U can respond directly to cakyol@cisco.com
By jot at 5:56 PM ON 09/20/09
Pah, IR isnt very bad anymore, only happens if you do something for a few hours, but mild gaming is fine nowadays.
Some tvs are better than others too, depending on the phosphors.
I still cant belive there are a bunch of idiots who still think that IR is very bad
By Question at 10:46 PM ON 11/07/09
Question Would small logos from the tv channels cause retention such as the tbs or abc logo or things like that bc they are always on the channel?
on your cellphone!
Text DVICE to 72434
editor@dvice.com
Question:
Question Would small logos from the tv channels cause retention such as the tbs or abc logo or things like that bc ...More »