The setup certainly doesn't make it sound positive: The Redbird Reef off the coast of Slaughter Beach, Delaware is a dump site for retired New York City subway cars, and there are already nearly 700 of them on the ocean floor. Before you cry foul, consider the words of Jeff Tinsman, the Delaware Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Control's artificial reef program manager, who told the New York Times: "They’re basically luxury condominiums for fish."
Who would have thought that subway cars on the ocean floor would encourage fish to congregate? Rather than abandon the structures, fish are moving in at such a rate that the program is trying to provide more cars. What's more, the program is also facing competition from other states after its impressive success, as the city of New York offers the cars for free.
Just remember to save a few subway cars for us, guys. Check out the gallery below for more views of the subway cars getting dumped.
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New York Times, via Swissmiss
editor@dvice.com
By murc at 7:13 PM ON 04/11/08
I'm assuming you just found this out and then assumed that nobody else must know. :/
they have been doing this for many years now. I've known about it for a long time, and I live in the middle of the country.
in other words...stick to tech.
By Steve at 7:15 PM ON 04/11/08
How does it feel being smarter than everyone Murc?
By murc at 9:31 PM ON 04/11/08
it feels good.
By TedinAsia at 4:17 AM ON 04/12/08
Ahh Steve, don't give him a hard time.. anyone named "Murc" must be ... challenged...
By Traveler at 6:50 PM ON 04/12/08
Maybe sinking large ships makes sence, but it'd be much better to to crush this small stuff and recycle.
By MrLanguageGuy at 1:33 AM ON 04/13/08
Shouldn't that be 'sinking subway cars makes cents'?
By danzara at 7:49 AM ON 04/13/08
I wanna who you people are in the world.
By dvsmemphis at 8:05 AM ON 04/13/08
I want to know what the rusting metal does to the water?
By jerome horwitz at 8:10 AM ON 04/13/08
As expensive as steel and other metals are today, why aren't these being recycled? Or at least some.... don't get me wrong I'm also a fan of artifical reefs but there are other things that can be used as well.
By Enoughny at 11:29 AM ON 04/13/08
1) These make 'reefs' where there were none before, changing the indigenous environment to be different than the one nature decided should be there.
2) They are not recycled because it is cheaper to keep pulling raw materials from the earth than to separate the toxic materials from the non-toxic recyclable part.
3) The guy praising these as 'luxury condominiums for fish' is the manager of the program. It's his job to promote it, he can't be objective.
When have we ever outsmarted nature? In the name of helping nature we are once again helping ourselves without considering the long range effects.
By kamic at 11:41 AM ON 04/13/08
I could understand doing this to fix areas we already damaged, give the scuba divers something to do. but what is the longterm affects?
By flexajandro at 2:07 PM ON 04/13/08
this is yet another proof of how stupid and short term sighters stupid humans in power are...
By Hank Fox at 2:54 PM ON 04/13/08
I remember reading equally positive words about creating "artificial reefs" out of old tires. That didn't work out all that well, as I recall:
"Tire Reef Off Florida Proves Disaster" http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-02-17-florida-reef_x.htm
I also wonder if they're removing the toxics from these things before they dump them -- the grease, etc.
By TruthSaer at 5:38 PM ON 04/13/08
Hey Hank Fox-- No more "wondering"
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/08/060818-subway-reef_2.html
"Before the rail cars were sunk, materials that were potentially dangerous, such as the oily and greasy undercarriages, were removed; doors and windows were taken off; and the interiors were steam cleaned.
What remained were 20,000-pound (9,000-kilogram) boxes with good water circulation and lots of nooks and crannies for fish"
By Nobody at 7:54 PM ON 04/13/08
Ahh we humans are so smart... Not...
By Montoya at 6:39 AM ON 04/14/08
"Who would have thought that subway cars on the ocean floor would encourage fish to congregate?"
People don't know this? What were you doing in 4th grade science class? Metal structures *always* make great reefs. This isn't so unusual.
By njdiver at 7:53 AM ON 04/14/08
Subway cars have been on the bottom off NJ since 1990. States from Georgia north have had the "Redbirds" from NY since 2001. The NY MTA found reefing the cars to be cheaper than removing the asbestos from the floor tiles and sprayed resin from the walls. Everything about sinking them has been cleared by the EPA and US Coast Guard. If NY obtains their reef permits, from the Army Corp of Engineers, any time soon they will get all of the latest 1662 cars that are now coming available for reefing.
There is also the USS Arthur W. Radford, a Spruance class Destroyer, that is waiting in the US Navy Philadelphia shipyard to be reefed. It will be a joint effort between Maryland, Delaware and New Jersey. Planned to be placed just outside Delaware Bay equidistant from all three States.
By Enoughny at 8:43 AM ON 04/14/08
From
http://seawayblog.blogspot.com/2008/04/dumping-old-subway-cars-into-atlantic.html
"The American Littoral Society and other environmental groups opposed the use of the Redbird cars because they have small levels of asbestos in the glue used to secure the floor panels and in the insulation material in the walls."
What would they know, they're just scientists...
Remember this is about *changing* a functional ecosystem, not realizing that the ecosystem in place is EXACTLY what needs to be there.
Remember the great success of introducing harmless fuzzy bunnies to Australia or tasty pigs to Hawaii?
By slowbox at 9:59 AM ON 04/14/08
Why not give these to FEMA as temporary housing. Weatherproof, wired for electricity, people sleep in em all the time, and bums don't seem to mind using the bathroom in them either. Who's with me?
By rippedoffnyer at 1:15 PM ON 04/14/08
Another stupid idea by the geniuses who run the NY MTA. Theres nothing wrong with the cars as they are - they are just OLD. Most of them are mid 60s steel cars that would last forever if properly maintained. The redbirds served the Worlds Fair just fine and then on NY's IRT line with no hiccups. Its just easier (apparently) to buy new Japanese cars (no more Bombadier just Kawasaki) and waste NYC taxpayer monies. What a waste of good steel, good cars and good money. No wonder people hate NYC.
By julia66 at 9:40 PM ON 04/14/08
Is it a joke?
Where is EPA?
By CUESTALUIS at 11:47 AM ON 04/16/08
Hey why not give some of them away for artists like me who like to work with metal, steel is so expensive... besides that wouldn't hurt anything besides your eyes!
By llama at 2:42 AM ON 04/17/08
Have you been paying attention? They are reefed due to the danger to humans and the cost effectiveness. There is no place on this planet we do not strongly affect the ecosystem. This process is an attempt to make a positive change (lord knows we make anough negative changes). I for one applaud the effort and the intent. Also this is not done without extensive research and planning. Admittedly not every intent follows though as beneficial, but let's face it, not a one of us is perfect! for example, look at all the spelling and grammar errors on this page... I counted 96, before my own were posted:)
By disco at 11:02 AM ON 04/18/08
did they find out the fish came by after the dumping was already being done?
the term "'luxury condominiums' for fish" strikes me as humorous.