That Cher song severed the thread by which the last remaining modicum of respect I had for pop music was, at the time, hanging.

please. that auto tune on cher's voice was obviously used as an effect rather than pitch correction. they overused it to get a desired effect. when autotune is used to tune a voice, you'd never know.

What "Anon" said. The Cher thing is misleading. There is very little professional music made anymore that doesn't involve occasional corrections of note time and pitch.

Why does he say that accessing the notes within a chord has been deemed theoretically impossible? This has been possible for a long time through spectral analysis.

The theory for this has been around for a long long time, it's the actual engineering of it and tuning to get it to sound right that's new.

Hahahaha... as if programs like fruity loops and pro tools didn't do enough damage!

Actually the Cher song did not use Auto Tune actually it was a talkbox. There was an article about that song in Mix Magazine some time ago. So the article's writer is wrong as it is concerning the facts behind that song's production is inaccurate.

How can this not be bad for the music industry? I mean, if any no-talent singer-wannabe can become a star, oh, wait...

I'm totally impressed. Now I can hack a symphony. The naysayer's don't understand that this is a great new tool for composition as well as a trick for fixing performance mistakes. Maybe in the 16th century some people thought musical notation was 'cheating'. This software looks awesome.

Great.
More Celebriteens can get their own music careers and totally ruin the music business for people who actually have talent.

Horray for Paris Hilton Hits Vol II.

Why does he pronounce MIDI "meaty"?

This is a common misconception. The Cher effect was done with some kind of vocoder.

anyone who REALLY understands pitch and intonation knows that 'in tune' is arbitrary, cultural, expressive, and subject to the 'rules' of styles, eras, etc etc. - try to 'correct' the pitch of anything by Ali Akbar Khan, John Coltrane, music of the European Renaissance/Baroque....

Get a clue. It will always be about producing MOVING performances in real time with whatever tools are available. Hacks will always hack with their hacking devices and numbskulls will always listen to the results.

I am gonna write a wiki on HAK music : human assisted komposition.

KALI: no you're not.

Look, if you have talent, tools like this are just helpers. To say that products like this and auto tune ruin the music industry is just plain stupid. Paris Hilton has a music career because she is famous and has money not simply because she could fake it with audio tools. C'mon don't be one of those pathetic people that blames tools like this for you or your band not being successful. If you're talented, you'll do fine.

the interview in mix magazine saying the cher effect was done with a vocoder was later revealed to be deliberately misleading - the engineers told some fibs to try and keep the trick to themselves (hunt down the article online, it's been since corrected/disclaimed). it's 100% autotune.

The people who criticise tools like this, obviously don't have the first idea about what music production entails.
OK, it'll mean in the pop world that image can take even more of a forward position, over 'talent', but it has always been that way, for the past few decades at least, and it's the consumers who are at fault, no one else. Anyway, garbage in, garbage out, as has already been said...the people who are already creative, will take a tool like this and blow your f*cking mind apart, and i am so looking forward to it!

http://www.reallybored.net/m_pictures/305.jpg

Great...I'm teaching my dog to sing right now!

think not of the new popstars that will result from such technology, but of the possibilities everyone has now to create music that otherwise could not, and what new sounds could come to be. I think this program is amazing.

This will make LIVE music performance (quality performance) that more important and interesting.

Here's a future conversation:

"Wow! He played that PERFECT with no mistakes! How'd he do that Mom?"

"I don't know son. Maybe he just kept playing it over and over until he could do it perfect every time!"

Wow. Wierd!"

This will help us for those rare times we fart out of tune.

Can't wait for Polyphonic Melodyne

Kali is apparently not a musician. Being in tune is not a myth. It's changing the resonance of your instrument so that it can match a given frequency. Lern 2 physics.

WOW living in the past much? Melodyne has been available and in use for many years. Just released? Are you nuts? Noob...

Freebooter is apparently not a well educated musician. Do the physics and you'll see that an octave and the notes within it don't add up! That's why there was that whole fuss about the equal temperament scale way back when.

The Cher song is Auto-Tune. No more discussion on that one.

This has got to be crock. Tuning individual strings of a guitar? If the low E is played and the E on the fourth string played, the lower E's first harmonic overtone will be an octave above or, assuming they're in tune, identical to the fundamental of the E being played on the fourth string. How would a programme manipulate one frequency without altering the other when they're in such close proximity? How would it not rip apart the timbre of everything it's applied to? I'm skeptical.

it would be very interesting to hear remixed versions of older tunes using this software. the mashup and sampling possibilities would be endless

As he says in the video, theoretically it shouldn't be possible. The frequencies of overtones should overlap indistinguishably.

Except there is a way that I thought of some years back but never got around to trying. I think that's probably how they do it: each instrument has a particular envelope at a given pitch. The overtone's envelope at any given pitch is also unique but related.

I'm betting that they use this fact to separate the notes yet align the separate notes with their source instruments.

I'm also really not surprised that a German came up with this rather than an American. The US is a stagnant, stinking abyss for music these days.

@YouAreMostlyAllFools

It would absolutely ruin, well maybe not ruin, but alter the timbre of everything it is applied to--just like the current generation of Auto-Tune Melodyne do.

The thing is, in most popular music, there are already so many effects changing and manipulating the timbre that it's at best imperceivable, or at worst forgettable.

Yes, yes. It will ruin everything just like Photoshop and Illustrator ruined visual arts, and just like Desktop publishing ruined writing and publishing. We've heard this one before. It's a garbage argument.

All you have to do is stop listening to Pop music or anything else that you judge personally to be worthless music. It's a choice; not choosing and/or acting is a choice too.

I don't listen to any US broadcast music - ever, because there is *absolutely nothing* coming out of the commercial music industry here good enough to justify wasting *my* valuable time.

Most of what I listen to is from outside the US because *that's were the innovation and creativity is supported and flourishing. This type of technology is actually part of the 2nd prong to stage a guerrilla attack and slay on the moribund US corporate music industry and dead music culture by replacing it with something worth listening to. Clearly the current economic system can't produce that musical product so amateurs are the only resource available to stage the movement. The first prong is to stop listening to and buying their products.

Stop and think about how this would make it so much easier for *anyone* to learn music and music theory. To create music that speaks what's in their head.

But maybe *that's* the real problem - the unwashed masses intruding into the realm of the high priesthood.

When I read this, I thought of a recorded piece I participated in a looooong time ago in college - long story short, based on the title of the partly improvisational Afro-Latin musical epic I was supplying vocals for, I spontaneously blurted something out that was so geeky and embarrassing that my colleagues reaction (kind but obviously aghast and mystified) will haunt me forever... I suppose if they can correct multiple pitches, they might be able to erase my giddy eruption from what was otherwise a pretty good recording. *grimace*

"There is very little professional music made anymore that doesn't involve occasional corrections of note time and pitch."

That's a pretty sad state of affairs. You'd think that a professional could do it right at least once in a row.

BOOOOOOOOOOO. learn to play/sing in tune, dipsh*ts.

No need for talent anymore, just a pretty face will do.

As The Engineer said, the argument that this will ruin music is garbage. These tools have been around for years. It is sad, though, that so much of American pop music is manufactured these days. Luckily, the internet provides us the opportunity to seek out music from any part of the world. We are no longer forced to listen to Melodyne'd music if we don't want to. Simply realize that this technology exists, and if it helps you create, then wonderful. If you despise it, don't use it. But it's out there, and I think it's cool, whether or not I'll use it myself.

Real artists using this, I'd feel cheated. My little 12 year old sister having a perfect pitch with this technology in a video game like Rockband, remarkable.

To ANON @ 1205:

Usually it's tough, however, a trained ear can still pick out an autotuned song quite easily.

Everyone in the entertainment and practically every other field should expect that things will evolve and fundamental change will continue. Things are barely at the elbow of the hockey stick of progression in most areas. There is no longer any cushion after years of dedication to your area of expertise. Remember once pandora's box is open there is no closing it. Nothing is sacred to technology.

...Couldn't this be abused if it was used to alter a person's voice?

Call me old fashioned but the Beatles, Elvis and all the other greats never needed anything like this because they all "REHEARSED" until it was right!
Even the not so perfect notes in those old recordings mean something (nobody's perfect)and the recordings did not suffer from being a little "out". Good grief! Nothing is perfect, so why polish the Paris "turd"?

I agree that the 'little out' elements are important elements of those song styles, but the studio producers have been 'fixing' most things for years.

Live performances seem to be the last real place you can hear any musician inspired 'personality' in songs. I'd expect that AI systems in composition tools will be soon simulating the 'little outs' of all kinds of artist styles (maybe they are doing that now), and with a tool like that and some basic raw material, you could make anyone play anything. Add that to the Hannah Montana model of some new dancing/singing/axe wielding Honda robot and it could crank out all of the Hendrix classics in a concert/birthday party near you.

Music is a fundamental part of the human experience it seems. I don' think that will change for future generations, but it's unclear where the soul of the music will come from down the road (if indeed there is much soul now).

However, music will still need to be heard when the power goes out or crap gets unplugged.

As an engineer and musician (musician and engineer??) with over 15 years experience in some of the most renowned studios in the world, can tell you it's a great tool that will be VERY handy, but a great album / song STILL requires a great performance. You can't plug in a great performance.

Yes. This Melodyne plugin is impressive on one hand. On the other hand... I have to ask myself... WHAT? (Or for some of you, WTF?)

a) Have we come to the point where we can't get a guitarist to tune his guitar and PLAY the right notes in the 1st place? Now I have to digitally RE-TUNE his guitar?

b) Most music is repeatitive. So, WHAT? I can't just use my DAW to edit and copy/paste a repair
over a chord or section of music to correct a bad chord? OR just do a punch-in there?
HELLO ENGINEER???!!!!
ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION???...
Can't you possibly DO YOUR JOB and get a punch-in FIX of that chord they obviously MISSED in the chorus?????

c) Chances are, the orchestra that has an OBVIOUS BAD NOTE in the cello, or flute was full
of musicians that weren't so HOT in the 1st place... and it's questionable that a performance
in this type genre or venue deserves a recording session! Although HERE, I would have to say it's the most USEFUL or perhaps valuable application of the product. That is... if you're bothering to record classically trained performers WHO CAN'T PLAY THE RIGHT NOTES. I mean after all... the PROFESSIONAL ORCHESTRAL MUSICIAN'S JOB OF BEING A HIGHLY TRAINED APPLIANCE OPERATOR IS REALLY HIS STOCK IN TRADE. IF THEY NEED FIXED, THEN WE'VE LOST THE LAST VESTAGES OF ARTISTIC INTEGRITY. Kind of tragic wouldn't you say? It's like losing the Sea Otters to instinction.

d) When we get to the point that we need to RETUNE guitars, pianos & orchestra's... then we've got to the point where musicians SUCK SO BAD that the music they're recording probably isn't WORTH LISTENING TO, MUCH LESS RECORDING, in the 1st place!!! Isn't it bad enough that we have vocalists who can't sing? Do you LIKE robotic vocals? And WHY then, are these people stars? Oh... forgot... they won a contest. VOMIT!!!!!!

Rather that robotic tuners... I favor PUCHING IN a fix, or copy/pasting, OR simply doing an alternate or 2nd, 3rd or 4th take and then edit and assemble ONE good performance. That way, it's REAL and it sounds REAL. Duh!

In the future, once music has been pirated to the point it's all downloaded P2P FREE... I doubt there's going to be much money PAID for musicians. It makes little sense to spend 1 to 4 hours TUNING them with the Melodyne plugin or other software. Since they're already in the studio, and we're paying them $2.00/hr., just have them PLAY IT AGAIN!

This Melodyne plugin reminds me of the 60's TV show, "Rowan and Martins LAUGH IN", when Arte Johnson said: "Very interesting... but stupid!"

Gary Boggess
Boggess Music & Sound
www.boggessmusicandsound.com
813.909.2191

they have been doing "autotuning" for a very long time in music recording -- either with synthesisers (pitch bend wheel anyone?) or by physically retarding tape...

nothing new to see here, just a new way to do it.

great technology --

All you noisy negativists can continue to bark on. Instead of barking, Celemony has changed the world and you have to live in it. Either you improve stuff or you're just blabbering biomass who will fade to obscurity. Sorry, but that's how the universe works. Life is a do-it-yourself gig. 95% of you need to be told what to do and think anyway, so no wonder about the comments.

Cool !

Huge potential for washing surveillance recordings.

I wonder how this software reacts to sounds recorded in any kind of reverb environment, where chords persist into the next chord. The examples in the video are pretty dry. As a composition tool this thing will be awesome.. as a recording tool, it will be abused like every other recording tool has been abused. But it will also be awesome.

As for the "purists," some people aren't happy unless it was recorded in one room with a single RCA ribbon mic to a wax cylinder in 1923. Even then though I doubt they're really happy.

Amazing. That means that more non-talents can be stars thanks to their parents money. So sad...

Amazing. That means that more non-talents can be stars thanks to their parents money. So sad...

This is a good thing. Who cares about singing or even playing talent if the end results are the same? The important talent is in the creativity of the composer, and this puts more power in his or her hands. There will always be crappy pop stars, whether they have singing ability or not-- that's not what makes them crappy. It's the vacuous songs, lyrically and musically. That won't change. Just ignore it and find the good music that's out there.

I was going to comment on several people... but so many of you have no idea what you are talking about. Instead, I am just going to say a few things. It was impossible to change individual notes up until this software. I don't care what you have to say. If there is something that CAN do it, then it cannot do it right. I use this software in college. It has become a wonderful tool in our classroom to show us music majors what is going on and how to make changes. THERE IS NO OTHER SOFTWARE THAT CAN DO THIS. There is nothing misleading about this at all. I can also promise that half of you who think so cannot do any of this yourself and have no idea how much trouble it is to do so. Lets just say... this software saves us hours of work and gives us much MUCH more options. Now, anon, go suck a cock.

I dont understand what's wrong with correcting tones. I dont want to hear out of pitch notes. I listen to most music for the music, not the talent.

Nice post... I like it like Milk and Company

This is a tool. Like any tool, it's all in how it's used. All the special effects and producer's tricks in the world won't make a shitty song into a great song. They can make a great song even better though. I guess all the naysayers think that multi-track recording, compression, and EQ is "faking it" too. I guess we should go back to the days when the whole band would play the song live in front of one microphone, recording to a wax cylinder. That would be great, huh? It's called progress. Go live in a cave if you don't like it. I can't wait to play around with this.

Whoah, I got to get some of that! I hope that it will accept even the hissiest of crowd noise. The idea of applying a hard pitch quantise to totally ambient café noise... cool!

Sure, this is meant to cover up for the mistakes of the acoustic musician, but I feel that this will offer some new opportunities for those working in the electronic domain. Bring on the digital powers! Piss off protoolsing fake-friendly noobs and go practise some scales.

The interesting thing about this software is less about how it will be used and simply about pushing the envelope with signal processing. This is an incredible feat and anyone who knows the basics of DSP and has thought about it knows this. Sometimes its not really about walking on the moon but simply knowing that it is possible...

I'ts just another tool to use in the quest for a good sounding track The Beatles would have sounded different and probably crap without the use of Compressors which are used to even out the dynamics of a performance whereas a trained vocalist can sing with even dynamics and control without the use of outside help from a compressor. But i think we would all agree that if the Beatles had of been passed by because they couldn't sing like a trained professional the world would be a very different any probably a sadder place.
An Opera Fan probably hates the Beatles or the Stones for the reason that there is not the same dynamics in popular recording as there is in a Classical recording.
I really don't think the Moon will implode when this tool is made available but hopefully someone will use it creatively
The odd person who buys Paris Hilton records doesn't give a crap if it's pitch corrected or not....

Great, just what we need. More crappy artists lying about there 'talent' and making money for it. Yeah!